can anyone prove 1+1 = 1? [Archive]

Token Gay Guy

05-10-2002, 11:25 AM

How about this,

1^1 = 1 * 1 = 1
2^2 = 2 * 2 = 2 + 2 (add twice)
3^2 = 3 * 3 = 3 + 3 + 3 (add 3 times)
4^2 = 4 * 4 = 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 (add 4 times)
...
x^2 = x * x = x + x +...+ x (add x times) (eq. 1)

taking the derivative of eq. 1,

2*x = 1 + 1 +...+1 (x times)
2*x = x (divide by x)
2 = 1 !!!!!

what's wrong with this?

thily

05-10-2002, 11:45 AM

LBB, your derivative is for the .. birds

convitcon

05-10-2002, 02:10 PM

Ai cho ph�p mấy cha chia một số cho z�ro ???

divide both side by (a-b)
since a=b => a-b = z�ro

nếu t�nh kiểu n�y .... th� ch�t cha thi�n hạ rồi
hi hi hi

NVT :0) nice try bro
kh� kh� kh� .....

thily

05-10-2002, 02:17 PM

cvc, read my post above !

Token Gay Guy

05-10-2002, 03:06 PM

not sure what you're trying to say in 2), but you got me with 1).

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by NVT:
thu*? coi ddu'ng kho^ng
1) x can only be integer so the function is not a continuous function so that can take the derivetive.
2) the x+x+x+...+x (x times) ma` factor ra thi`
x(1+1+1+...+1). x is a variable while (1+1+1+...+1) is a number so that when you write
x+x+x+...+x = x*x then the first x is the variable the second x is a number when you take the derivative the second x count as a constant so it only x*1 not 2*x. :D :D <hr /></blockquote>

lanthuat

05-10-2002, 03:11 PM

Hello bro and sis

How about start with

x=1 then work your way down

method above doesn't work

ShyGirl

05-10-2002, 06:03 PM

Hmmmm... beside using mathematic, is there another to solve that riddle? For instance, you can take 1 person, a male, then another person, a female. When those 2 people become a couple (bf/gf or husband/wife). A couple is 1, it is a single term, and it takes 2 people, 1+1 to equal a couple, which is one.

SG cu~ng cha(?ng hie^?u mi`nh ddang no'i gi` nu*~a, hihihi, tho^i dzo.t :D :D :D

CAptain DaLaZBoi

05-11-2002, 12:51 AM

wow........... tcn tho^ng minh wa' ta....

hihihihi....

1 + 1 = 1

same as : 1 piece ( co.ng ) of 1 ... cho ne^n equal 1 ...

:) :)

lanthuat

05-11-2002, 01:44 AM

who say not possible. Here is the solution.

let start with this statement
x=1
time both side by x then you got
x^2 = x
then minus 1 from each side then you got
x^2 - 1 = x - 1
x^2 - 1 = (x-1)*(x+1)
from here you got
(x-1)*(x+1) = (x-1)
then you divide each side by (x-1) so you get
(x+1) = 1
since x=1, put it back into the equation
1+1 = 1

GioLanh

05-11-2002, 03:30 AM

Hmm,
I think there is a way to prove that.
Some theorems use a and a' (for ex, a.a'=0, a+a'=1, OR, AND, XOR, ...)
It was shown in either descrete math or digital logic class.
It was long time ago for me now (forgot how to do it - already sold my book :D ).

Any undergrad CS, CE, EE here?

GioLanh

05-11-2002, 03:43 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by NVT:

If 1=2 I would be a million right now.<hr /></blockquote>U can ask Mr. Gates (Billionaire) and Mr. Dell (Multi-millionaire).
I'm sure they have more "weird" proofs.

Logically saying:
1 = true, 2 = true;
true = true => 1 = 2
Verify these conditions
if (x=1) and if (x=2)
Are they different? I don't think so :)
Condition is always true <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

lanthuat

05-11-2002, 02:33 PM

it has to be a statement for you to say 1=2

1 = true is not a statement because 1 is predefined value and always true.

if you have for x=1 and x=2, this means the first time you use x in a equation, it has value of 1. Then the second time, it has value of 2. x is a variable that have a stored value.

GioLanh

05-12-2002, 12:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lanthuat:
it has to be a statement for you to say 1=2

1 = true is not a statement because 1 is predefined value and always true.

if you have for x=1 and x=2, this means the first time you use x in a equation, it has value of 1. Then the second time, it has value of 2. x is a variable that have a stored value.<hr /></blockquote>lanthuat,
we're not on the same frequency here :D
There is a big difference between (x=1) and (x==1) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
By any chance, do U program?
If U do, U should know what I'm talking about :)

lanthuat

05-12-2002, 01:27 AM

yes I do programming.

GioLanh

05-12-2002, 01:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lanthuat:
yes I do programming.<hr /></blockquote>Then U should know (ie, C++ language) the diff bt
if (x=1) and
if (x==1)

Is there a diff bt
if (x=1) and
if (x=2) ?
The answer is "no"

I was a QA for a while and believe me, I'd seen lots of errors like this :)

lanthuat

05-12-2002, 02:29 AM

if you talk about programming, there is a different. For example if you declared int x=1 and then int x=2, it won't compile because you have already defined that 1 is store to x. You should know that if you do this in programming, you will get error. Even in regular math, for example, solve this equation x + 1 when x= 1 and x=2. Of course the answer should be when x=1 the equation is 2 and when x=2 the equation is 3. So there must be a different. If no different, the answer for the above equation will equal 2 or 3

HoangLan

05-12-2002, 06:26 AM

HL da doc may cai reply het roi, doc di, doc lai, van chua hieu :( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[ May 12, 2002, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: Ho�ngLan ]

XiMuiCaNaMeChua

05-12-2002, 02:17 PM

tru`i ui sao ai cu~ng gia?i thi'ch complicated qua' va^.y? khi XM ddo.c ca^u ho?i thi` only one answer come to mind ddo' la` 1+1=1 ta.i vi` mo^.t ba co^.ng mo^.t ma' thi` se~ co' mo^.t con . :D

nhu*ng ddo.c xong reply cu?a ta^'t ca? XM ca?m tha^'y ho^? the.n la` mi`nh dda^`u o'c qua' ddo*n gia?n :D

GioLanh

05-13-2002, 12:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lanthuat:
if you talk about programming, there is a different. For example if you declared int x=1 and then int x=2, it won't compile because you have already defined that 1 is store to x. You should know that if you do this in programming, you will get error. Even in regular math, for example, solve this equation x + 1 when x= 1 and x=2. Of course the answer should be when x=1 the equation is 2 and when x=2 the equation is 3. So there must be a different. If no different, the answer for the above equation will equal 2 or 3<hr /></blockquote>I think we're still on diff frequency :)

Did U take "digital logic circuit" class or "discrete" math ?
U heard a term "logical expression"?
Anyone here knows what I'm talking about?

lanthuat

05-13-2002, 01:55 AM

I agreed with NVT

GioLanh

05-13-2002, 10:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by NVT:
However 2 things are true that doesn't mean they are equal. :D <hr /></blockquote>Agreed!
I did not say 1 is equal to 2, did I? :D

The topic is to prove 1 + 1 = 1 (an expression)
Well, maybe I think about the logical proofs, that's why I mentioned using a + a' = 1 and a . a' = 0
I believe if U use these theorems, it should be an easy proof :)

If U try to use Algebra math, then there is no way to prove it.
Try to use Discrete math (*hint*) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

lanthuat

05-13-2002, 03:55 PM

What are you talking about?

My prove is using Algebra not logic.

GioLanh

05-14-2002, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by lanthuat:
What are you talking about?

My prove is using Algebra not logic.

Well, U did NOT specify using what to prove on the topic (that's why I keep saying that we're not on the same frequency:) )

U just said prove the expression 1 + 1 = 1 ... hehehe
Again, I can say that algebratically it is impossible to prove it.
Ex, how can U have 1 buck + 1 buck = 1 buck, right?

Discretely or logically it can be proved ;)

I guess I can rest my case here :)

To the others:
This is a very typical example for real-life experience.
Specially in IT field.
If U do not get the requirements clear up, it can be a BIG problem on the long run ...

lanthuat

05-15-2002, 02:06 AM

Hello ColdWind,

Just wondering, are you still in school, or in the labor force and what do you do. I think you might be an engineer or programmer because of your logic. If you are a programmer, do you know how to program Simpletron Machine Language in Java. I just started to learn Java and about to finish my first semester in it.

GioLanh

05-15-2002, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by lanthuat:
Hello ColdWind,

Just wondering, are you still in school, or in the labor force and what do you do. I think you might be an engineer or programmer because of your logic. If you are a programmer, do you know how to program Simpletron Machine Language in Java. I just started to learn Java and about to finish my first semester in it.

Hi lanthuat,

I've been out of school for a while now.
That's why I even forgot how to prove 1 + 1 = 1 using decrete math :)

Anyway, I'm a SW engineer now, dealing with s/w architect design (high-level).
I'm not that familiar with Java.
I don't think I can help you with your problem right of my head.
Have U tried google.com for source?

I believe this topic should be in HW forum, we're kinda getting into technical issues now ... hehehe

ConChimSe

05-15-2002, 03:55 PM

Coldwind, take my advice.

You're saying that you're a WS engineer then please have your boss check you work more often because with the way you're proving thing (the 1+1=1 problem), you will KILL consumer when they use your products. I'm in the same field, so I give you this advice. You must learn about the UL rules.

GioLanh

05-16-2002, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by ConChimSe:
Coldwind, take my advice.

You're saying that you're a WS engineer then please have your boss check you work more often because with the way you're proving thing (the 1+1=1 problem), you will KILL consumer when they use your products. I'm in the same field, so I give you this advice. You must learn about the UL rules.

Hmm,
I guess people did not read my posts closely.
Go back and read them again (just like when U read the requirement :))

First, I just said that the expression maybe be proved LOGICALLY by using DISCRETE math.
Second, I did NOT prove it yet (b/c shamefully I forgot those theorems)

Conchimse,
U ask me to take your advice? what advice?
what's WS engineer? not me :D
UL rules? never heard of these either :)
And if you say you're in the same field with me (software engineering), the number one rule is reading and understanding the requirements very very very closely.

ConChimSe

05-16-2002, 09:49 AM

just for fun ColdWind, why be so upset? chill allright? be kool. It is my bad that I mistyped WS, I mean SE, because in my mind when I spell "SoftWare", I want to abb. it as SW but somehow I wrote WS. my bad allright. cool now.
For the UL means Under Laboratory, look for most (or all) of the tools, equipments especially for electric one, that is sold in US has this seal.

For the problem 1+1=1, I took Discrete math 3-4 years ago, and tried to prove this problem, but I came to the conclusion that "there is no VALID proof for this".
This is what I read from one of the greatest logician of all time Bertrand Russell (or was it A.N. Whitehead?), he once claimed that he could prove anything if given that 1+1=1. So one day, some smarty-pants asked him, "Ok. Prove that you're the Pope." He thought for a while and proclaimed, "I am one. The Pope is one. Therefore, the Pope and I are one."

GioLanh

05-16-2002, 12:55 PM

Conchimse,
nah, I'm not upset ... "upset" is a number one "NO, NO" when dealing with customer.

As a SE, I deal with many people (customers, bosses, team members, other developers, testers ...) so I do not get upset that easy; otherwise, I would not last in this field for years :)

I did not remember those theorems in Discrete math.
When I mention logical expression, I look at 'true' or 'false', not the actual value.
Remember these theorems:
" a+1=1 ",
" a.0=0 ",
" a+a'=a ",
" a.a'=a' ",
and so on ... does not matter what 'a' is ...

When U look at these theorems, the operators '+' and '.' are not the mathematical operators but they are logical ones.
what is the diff?
math ops: they add/multiply the values of each term
logical ops: they just simply evaluate the expression.

This is why lanthuat and I were not in the same frequency b/c he asked for a 'math' proof and I thought that he did not care what proof could be used

Similar case in programming, when U pass something by value is totally diff from pass by reference (I bet U programmers probably heard of this million times)

About the 'Pope' example U mentioned, I would not even try to go there.
U probably heard about "the Trinity" if U are Catholic or Christian.
What's Trinity? basically means Three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is One and One is Three.
Want a proof for this?
Better ask God :)

ConChimSe

05-16-2002, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the reply, it cleared up what I thought I made you upset.

For people who don't know much about Discrete math or logical math, it becomes very foggy for them when seeing those prove. I myself hated those courses, I took it because of the requirement.
Talking about "asking God", I remembered when I took the philosophy course "The Problem of Mind". Whenever, we can't prove something, we just say that's GOD.

What do you do as a SE? you code? design? in machine level or high level?

GioLanh

05-16-2002, 01:59 PM

"Whenever, we can't prove something, we just say that's GOD. "
Exactly :) ... there is another phrase "only God knows"

"What do you do as a SE? you code? design? in machine level or high level?"
I've been doing SE for 4 yrs now. I've done Tester, coder, QA, Tech writer, and now more like System Architect Designer (high level).

What about U?

ConChimSe

05-16-2002, 02:38 PM

So you're senior now, right? I'm working in this field about 2 short years, there is a lot to learn in this field though. I'm a software design for a wireless company, so I do a lot of coding, Application programming NOT embedded programming, I don't like assembly language much.